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    Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

    ... und natürlich mit einem Dolby-Atmos-Mix.

    Bei der Ausgabe handelt es sich um einen Doppelpack, bestehend aus einer Hybrid-SACD und einer Pure Audio Blu-ray.
    SACD: Stereo 16 bit 44.1 kHz; DSD Stereo; DSD Multi Channel 5.1

    Blu-ray: 5.1 DTS HD MA 24 bit/192 kHz; 2.0 LPCM 24 bit/192 kHz; Dolby Atmos

    Im Preis inbegriffen ist ein Digital Download der Stereofiles in DSD / 24 bit/96 kHz FLAC / 16 bit 44.1 kHz WAV / 320 kps MP3

    Live recorded in DSD 128 fs.

    Tonträger und Tonformate sind ausreichend vorhanden, bleibt nur noch, sich mit dem Komponisten anzufreunden. Und das fällt mir ausgesprochen schwer. Aber wenn ich mich auf den Klang konzentriere, meine Aufmerksamkeit auf die Musik lenke, dann kann ich auch entspannt zuhören, zumal meine Anlage jetzt traumhaft aufspielt.

    #2
    AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

    dsd aufnahme?

    hm

    kleiner einwand

    Vor beinahe drei Jahren stellte ich an dieser Stelle die Frage: DSD, ein Format mit Zukunft? Die scheint heute entschieden. Fast jeder neue Wandler k


    da müsste mir technisch in der allerletzten zeit was entgangen sein
    ALSregel: besser man kann mehr, als man macht, als man macht mehr, als man kann. (brecht)

    Kommentar


      #3
      AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

      Zitat von longueval Beitrag anzeigen
      dsd aufnahme?

      hm

      kleiner einwand

      ....
      ... ich denke, dass die DSD-Stereo-Aufnahme quasi als Direktschnitt auf die SACD gewandert ist, denn die Version klingt über den AVR, der DSD direkt kann, ungemein dynamisch und luftig, da kann die DSD-Multi nicht mithalten; die auch das Nachsehen gegenüber der 5.1 DTS HD MA hat.
      Ich vermute, dass die DSD Multi über PCM bearbeitet und wieder nach DSD konvertiert wurde und dabei ein Quäntchen Dynamik verloren ging.

      Kommentar


        #4
        AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

        ich kenne keine methode, mit der man dsd bearbeiten kann, aber wie schon gesagt, ich weiß nicht alles. selbst lautstärke regelung ist in dsd nicht möglich ohne wandlung in pcm.


        aber

        "A final remark. If in our opinion 192/24 files
        are a better choice than DSD fi les, then why do
        we include the ‘DoP’ DSD format in the USB
        interface for our LS1? The reason is simple.
        Until recently there were just two important
        formats for musical content, CD’s with 44.1/16
        and SACD’s with 64 fs DSD. A lot of wonderful
        music has been released in these formats and
        recently the SACD masters are becoming
        available as online downloads. We want to
        enable our customers to enjoy that music and
        therefore we will support every quality format.
        In our view it is music over format, not the
        other way around.
        Eelco Grimm & Peter van Willenswaard"

        insofern, viel spaß damit

        PS:
        wenns wen interessiert

        Zuletzt geändert von longueval; 15.08.2017, 21:19.
        ALSregel: besser man kann mehr, als man macht, als man macht mehr, als man kann. (brecht)

        Kommentar


          #5
          AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

          ... das kleine Label "lso live" macht wohl alle Aufnahmen in DSD.

          Die Anzahl der Hörer, die DSD nativ hören (können), steckt sicher im Promille-Bereich. Insofern ist es nicht relevant, wann DSD in PCM gewandelt wird.

          Kommentar


            #6
            AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

            Was da an Musik tönt, ist wohl egal?

            Kommentar


              #7
              AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

              aha

              das ist sowas wie direkt schnitt zu analogzeiten

              Post Production
              The result of post production editing and mixing is a .dff DSD digital file called the DSD Edit Master, and which is the source of NativeDSD's downloads.

              From the Edit Master the DSD data is lossless compressed and encoded to produced a .dst ISO Cutting Master, which is then used by the SACD plant to produce an SACD for distribution. A similar process is used converting the DSD Edit Master for other optical media, like DVD-A and Blu-Ray, in their proprietary formats.

              die firma, die das macht heißt "native dsd"

              das heißt also alles was aufgenommen wird wird analog eingestellt und in ein direkt dsd gemastert ohne umweg pcm. war mir nicht bekannt, dass das wer macht.
              die anderen formate sind natürlich dann schon pcm.

              @micha
              für mich ist die technische seite schon interessant, weil ich in pcm produziere.
              Zuletzt geändert von longueval; 15.08.2017, 23:07.
              ALSregel: besser man kann mehr, als man macht, als man macht mehr, als man kann. (brecht)

              Kommentar


                #8
                AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

                ... übrigens: Made in Austria MCPS

                Kommentar


                  #9
                  AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

                  mcps ist die englische rechteverwertungsgesellschaft, oder?
                  ALSregel: besser man kann mehr, als man macht, als man macht mehr, als man kann. (brecht)

                  Kommentar


                    #10
                    AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

                    Wer seine Schallplatten-Sammlung digital verewigen und archivieren will, kann neben PCM auch DSD als Speicherformat verwenden.

                    Kommentar


                      #11
                      AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

                      nach dem ersten absatz hab ich zu lesen aufgehört, da steht was grundfalsches, dsd rauscht mehr, nur wird das rauschen nach oben verschoben im frequenzspektrum


                      ziemlich vollständige zusammenfassung

                      1. Sonoma workstation, seemed to go into hiatus for a while but have 8, 16, 24 track systems for sale with full production capabilities. Prices range from $16,000 to $40,000.
                      2. Pryamix system that allows DSD recording but all edits are done in a format they call DXD, which is 354x32bit PCM used for fades, edits etc. then inserted.
                      3. A proprietary methodology that Cookie Marenco uses called Extended Sound Environment (E.S.E.) includes recording to DSD or analog tape while musicians perform live in the studio without the use of headphones or overdubs. The music is mixed to DSD or 1/2" tape and the music never enters a PCM digital state. From a conversation with Cookie, the editing is accomplished in analog. The DSD recorder being used is the Pyramix system.
                      4. Korg had some pro-sumer 2-track recorders, MR-1, MR-2, MR-1000, MR-2000 that they now seemed to have abandoned. They ranged in price from $700-2000
                      5. Tascam has a 2-track mastering recorder called the DA-3000 released in 2014, that allows up to 8 units to be word synched with a master clock to build up to 16-tracks, but offer no editing systems other than bouncing between recorders. This machine, which also records PCM up to 192x24 is solid and retails for $1000. I know of several people using it to archive LPs.
                      6. There is one additional system using SACD and DSD files called isoMike, which seems to be primarily focused on a very specific arrangement of microphones and baffles to create a very accurate stereo and multichannel imaging.

                      Here are a few other factoids I have uncovered about the business side of DSD and SACD.

                      1. Phillips and Sony invented then abandoned the SACD disc based model but Sony has continued to use 1-bit DSD in the ISO format for archiving.
                      2. Over the past three years it has come to light that of the almost 7,400 SACDs produced only 2,300 of them were truly DSD, most started as PCM masters, and many of the pure DSDs started as edited analog masters, typically 1/4 or 1/2 inch, 15IPS or 30IPS masters that were equalized via an analog mastering board and then converted to DSD format. A database of recordings is at http://www.sa-cd.net/home. So unlike hi-def video which was soundly criticized until views saw the quality and adopted it rapidly over 2-3 years, DSD and high res PCM have seldom been experienced by most listeners and much of what was offered was frankly a disappointing fraud.
                      3. Some high resolution companies continue to convert high res PCM files 192x24 to DSD via "proprietary" systems, and the more honorable ones are stating their process in what they term "provenance."

                      The most interesting recent factoids related to the business and listener side of the model I have been discovering are:

                      1. There seems to be a growing interest in high resolution digital downloads ranging from quality of 48x24 to as high as 384x24 PCM and DSD in standard 2.86MHz, plus double (5.6MHz) and quadruple (11.2MHz) formats. Most of the recordings are still of the classical, jazz and blues genres. The only conversions of really popular music was that done by ABKO of the Rolling Stones analog masters of their albums and they were sold as hybrid SACDs with no labeling to identify the SACD portion of the discs; these discs are now becomming expensive collectables. A few other popular artists have titles in SACD and DSD downloadable formats including the popular Norah Jones and Diana Krall, who sell millions and also have followings in the audiophile community. Their music is available on MP3, MP4a, LP, CD, SACD, and high res PCM and DSD downloads. It is most interesting that the growth areas in the industry percentage wise are vinyl LP sales and digital downloads, however, they alone won't support the business. Currently the RIAA does not differentiate between low-res MP3 and high-res downloads.
                      2. One of the big challenges of DSD was getting to a standard format for exporting DSD files via USB. As of 2013, there is now a common industry accepted format called DoP, which I believe stands for DSD over PCM and it is a method for packing DSD info in to packets and sending out via PCM over the computer's USB. The method works reliably both Macs and PCs and I see comments that systems are being developed for the Linux OS.
                      3. There has been enough interest in the last three years that there are now over 100 manufacturers offering digital audio converters (DACs) that support both PCM and the DSD/DoP process, and there are about 10 or so software vendors that offer file management and playback systems that support playback on one of both computer platforms. The DACs range in price from $129 to thousands of dollars, and the software ranges from freeware to about $500.
                      4. There are about a dozen large digital download sites now selling classical, jazz, blues and classic rock/pop music as high res digital downloads including some well know ones such as NativeDSD.com, HDTracks, BlueCoastRecords.com, ProStudioMasters.com, acousticsounds.com. There are another 50 or so sites globally and I have no way to evaluate or judge their size and success.
                      5. The business model of the SACD won over the DVD-A, which virtually disappeared. The SACD business continues today with a couple hundred new albums (small compared to the PCM CD market) being offered each year mostly in the classical, jazz and blues genres. Recently there has been a bunch of extremely high quality remasters being done by Acoustic Sounds. These are limited production runs, usually offered in three formats, Vinyl LPs often as a 2-disc set of 45RPM, a SACD, and a DSD downloadable file. Retail prices are typically are respectively $50 for the LP, $35 for the SACD and $25 for the DSD download. These remasters are the best of the best classic jazz, rock and pop music of the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Chad Kasem, the owner of Acoustic Sounds seems to offer a good business philosophy of focusing on quality music, getting access to the original analog or digital masters then offering the music in the formats his buyers want.
                      6. In the past year, the interest level has grown enough to attract the attention of some of the major audio retailers again. Marantz of D&M Holdings is offering SACD players with built in DSD DAC capabilities. Sony a mid-fi giant has just re-entered the market with a well reviewed product call the Sony HAP-Z1ES. They have two models priced between $1,000-2000. Other entrants are Oppo with a top quality Blu-ray player model 105 that plays almost every disc format and serves as a DAC for PCM and DSD files, and Tascam has reentered with some high quality mid-price DACs.
                      7. One of the forever challenges of SACD was that it never was allowed to address the mobile or car audience. Now there is an emergence of two solutions. Very low cost, extremely high quality DACs from AudioQuest, iFi and others that allow laptops, tablets and phones to be used as a native DSD source. And now three companies so far are offering walkman type players that handle DSD directly, they include: the jewel like Astell & Kern players models 100, 120, 240 ranging from $1000 to $2400, Sony's new walkman NWZ-ZX2, which I am still trying to confirm will play DSD files, and the Neil Young project PONO, which he announced at CES 2015 will be playing DSD files shortly.

                      Concluding thoughts based on what I have found to this point:

                      1. Downloadable DSD and high res PCM seem to be emerging as viable business models especially for classical, jazz, blues music genres. The jury is still out on rock/pop.
                      2. There is now a reliable and growing infrastructure for the top end of the market to buy, download, play and enjoy both DSD and high res PCM files in mobile, auto, desktop and listening room situations for prices ranging from under $200 for the DAC to many thousands. There is some complexity to the set up and downloading, user convenience is not near what is offered by iTunes.
                      3. On average the high end listeners are paying $25-40 for the high res downloads depending on whether it is a new or reissue release.
                      4. The studio production workflow is still in a very immature state, making it very difficult if not impossible for the small project studio and expensive and a little daunting for the professional studio, which I believe is a reason that growth has been in those dedicated to the highest quality for classical, jazz and blues recordings.
                      5. Rock and pop, which are usually the leaders in innovative ideas for sound, mix, edit and effects are lagging behind in this opportunity to reach a relatively limited, but wealthy audience segment, that may not align well with their typical business model.
                      6. Those of you noting that 1-bit is the operative infrastructure even in PCM systems are correct. It doesn't have to be that way, but has been adopted because the system, from what I am told, is more robust, reliable and less expensive to manufacture/calibrate.
                      Zuletzt geändert von longueval; 16.08.2017, 13:20.
                      ALSregel: besser man kann mehr, als man macht, als man macht mehr, als man kann. (brecht)

                      Kommentar


                        #12
                        AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

                        ... es geht in dem Bericht ja nicht um DSD vs PCM.

                        Mir ist es auch egal, die SACD habe ich nur als Beigabe gesehen, und nur deshalb bin ich auch das DSD-Recording aufmerksam geworden.

                        Mein Hauptaugenmerk ist auf Dolby Atmos gerichtet.

                        Kommentar


                          #13
                          AW: Thomas Adès + LSO: Asyla Tevot Polaris

                          mich hat die technische umsetzung interessiert.
                          ALSregel: besser man kann mehr, als man macht, als man macht mehr, als man kann. (brecht)

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